Sunday, May 4, 2008

Of Koi and Sledgehammers

Ophelia by ^cosmosue

I am pleased to announce that Nietzsche Koi has inspired something resembling an intellectual conversation over at Shakespeare Geek:

Saturday, May 03, 2008
The Bard Never Would Have Let Me Use A Sledgehammer
[Note, image NSFW]
The above link just goes to a not-safe-to-work, albeit artistic image, with the following caption:
Shakespeare only really wrote with two views on women - the conniving sexualized and the innocent virgins. The guys I work with in construction see me as either a sexual object or an incompetent child, so they aren't much different than Shakespeare. Except the Bard never would have let me use a sledge hammer.
Posted by Duane at
11:38 PM

Craig said...
No, absolutely not, and really quite indefensible. Exhibits for the rebuttal:
Helena (All's Well that Ends Well version)
Margaret of Anjou
Lady Macbeth
Mistresses Ford and Page
Elinor of Aquitaine
Neither "sexual objects" nor "incompetent children," any of them. There is a great deal we would take issue with today with Shakespeare's presentation and treatment of women, to be sure--and "Shrew" looms large in that presentation in my mind--but Shakespeare also wrote about strong and capable women many times--some "good," some "bad," some pretty hard to categorize (Queen Margaret, one of the most remarkable characters in Shakespeare). A number of these characters are the "cross-dressers," the phenomenon of which must be central to any discussion of gender roles in Shakespeare, as it is highly suggestive that the "limitations" of womanhood are as much a social construct as dresses versus doublets. The argument you quote is the grossest kind of over-simplification of a quite complext topic. It bugs me to see this kind of argument--Shakespeare is picked up like a football and run towards whatever goal the writer is seeking.
11:54 AM

Akubi said...
It bugs me to see this kind of argument--Shakespeare is picked up like a football and run towards whatever goal the writer is seeking.
I completely agree. I'm glad to see some real discussion over a Nietzsche Koi post.Nonetheless, I still find it somewhat difficult to imagine Tamora working construction with a sledgehammer.
11:51 PM

Alan K.Farrar said...
Just re-watched Two Gentlemen - where there is a long list (Launce's) of the qualities needed in a good wife ... rather a lot of hard physical labour (from milking cows - which, unless you've ever tried it, don't mock - to beer making - again, something of an extreme sport). Modern presumptions and not knowing the plays I'm afraid.(And if Greer (bbke) is right, he had his wife working on a building site - as foreman.)
12:18 AM

Further thoughts or OT meanderings...?


Ogg the Caveman said...

The Bard was a dirty, dirty man.

* The Taming of the Screw
* A Midsummer Night's Ream
* Two Gentlemen in Veronica
* King Spear
* Murst!

Mitchell said...

From an Australian blog:

Blogger: "I find it hard to see how anyone serious can support either McCain or Clinton after this"

Commenter: "I don’t suppose anyone is really after the serious vote"

Anonymous said...

...but the often-repeated tale states that Nietzsche witnessed the whipping of a horse at the other end of the Piazza Carlo Alberto, ran to the horse, threw his arms up around the horse’s neck to protect it, and collapsed to the ground.

Nietzsche would have mourned Eight Belles too.

Akubi said...

And you are a dirty, dirty caveman.

I tend to agree. Plus the serious vote doesn't do well in the polls.

I forgot about that story. Yes, I believe he would.

Akubi said...

Tell Hillary to STFU at Nice Try, Give Up

Mitchell said...

The dream vote.

Akubi said...

Is there an alternate nightmare vote site?

Mitchell said...

you already covered it